Monday, November 21, 2005

GOP Separatism and the Difference Between Neocons and Traditional Republicans

First off, the article linked to in the post title is only a starting point for this topic- How Congressional Republicans are beginning to distance themselves from the White House and the Neocon stereotype.
Recently, House and Senate Republicans have begun distancing themselves from the Neocon political ideology of the Bush White House. This is largely due to severely declining support for the current conflict in Iraq, but is built also on a by-and-large rejection of policy proposals falling in line with that ideology (i.e., privatization of Social Security and Medicare, the non-traditional Neocon support for illegal immigrants, etc.). Some Republicans and Democrats with more traditional leanings may be confused by this concept, so let the ol' vet put it into perspective for you: Bush, Cheney, et al are NOT normal conservatives. They fall into a category referred to as Neocons, which differs on a large scale from traditional conservatism. One example is the Neocon policy toward illegal immigrants: Neocons typically support (or, at least, don't reject) illegal immigration into the country, as their take is that these immigrants mostly take jobs that Americans don't want, and aren't a large burden on government social programs. The traditional Conservative take on this subject is that illegal immigration should be stopped in its tracks, as regardless of whether Americans want those jobs, they NEED them. Also, traditional Conservatives feel that illegals DO create a significant burden on the government (while not paying taxes), and therefore should be removed, forcibly if necessary. Another example is the excessive spending that has taken place in the last few years under this administration. Traditional Conservatives are great supporters of fiscal responsibility, i.e. not spending more than we can afford to. The current administration has financed our current conflict not with slight tax raises, as is the more traditional way of financing a war, but mostly with foreign loans. Yes, a large portion of the money financing this conflict has come from borrowing. We'll be owing that back, with interest, here in just a few years. Traditional Conservatives wouldn't like that very much. Let me reiterate that for you: Traditional Conservatives would raise taxes as opposed to borrowing foreign money for this war. The current administration's tax cuts, combined with non-efficient spending on foreign military engagements, has destroyed the federal budget. Whatever happened to fiscal conservatism? It was left behind a couple of decades ago. Bush is a fiscal liberal. That's what a Neocon is.
I'd go on with this rant, but the vet is severely ill at the moment. More later.

10 Comments:

Blogger C R Mountjoy - GDF said...

I am a Neo Con. Or at least I thought I was. Perhaps I am a different NC than most others. I hate illegal immigration. I am a hawk on defense. I hate runaway, profligate spending in the house and Senate on anything that is not a road or a bullet. I hate the non-position this admin has taken with all its critics. I support partial birth abortion ban. I support a marriage amendment. I support closing the borders to everyone and I advocate kicking out anyone pre/post 9/11 who is here on a student work visa. I want out of the UN. I hate Castro and think he must die soon. I want the EU to take care of the Balkans, not the UN, nor the US. I want us out of Haiti, now. I want to open up the ANWR and drill in FL. I want to repeal any of the oppressive eco-wacko envrio legislation that says we can't drill in the US. I favor the line item veto. I favor recruiting tactics in HS by our armed services. I am a staunch supporter of Israel and everything it does (except espionage on us). I think we should continue the Space Program and fund it to its logical conclusions. I want to privatize AMTRACK. I want to privatize the mail. I support anti-gay rights and gay marriage legislation of any kind. I want all tax money pulled from NPR and PBS. I want no more money going to the PLO in humanitarian payments. I want to stop funding the UN and kick it out of the US. I want the NEA/AFT abolished. I want teachers to have MS and MBAs at all elvels and teacher certification tests every year. I want teachers to get paid by the number of studetns who perform and graduate. I want the pay of every level of active duty military personnel to up'd by 50% (even that is not enough). I want the US Border with Mexico sealed/mined. I want to start collecting Lend-Lease bills from WWII. I want an amendment to the Constitution that forbids the flag to be burned. I want to repeal Title IX. Except for the SEC and Big 10, there should not be any sports programs in college. I want Christmas back in public schools. The Boy Scouts can choose to not let certain 'types' of people in as Scout Masters. Three strikes/you're out legislation is two strikes too many. Any person/org caught spamming should be keel-hauled. I want literacy tests for voting. No bi-lingual education (although I speak, read and write Spanish - it was not taught as an alternative to English). I am for term limits on all local, state, fed elected officials. If you have not authored a bill in the House or Senate in your first term, you cannot be reelected. I am for compulsory military service at the age of 18 with a four year enlistment. 'Happy Holidays' should be abolished from the public lexicon - anyone who says 'Happy Holidays' should be jailed and his/her company fined 50K for every infraction. Every person in the US should drive SUVs. There should be no speed limits on any interstate in WY/ID/NE/IA/MT. There should be a one year ban on any reference to the Kennedy Presidency and family on television - this includes the word 'Camelot'. All that said...what kind of conservative does this make me after reading your post? A pretty dammed good one, save the name. Ideology be damned - all conservatives, no matter what stripe, tilt, bent should unite in the fight for everything listed in this response since it is these principles, plus the multifarious ones I have omitted, that the left attacks us with 24/7/365. NeoCon/PaleoCon..pah. When you look at the left, does it matter? Nope! Thanks for letting me rant and I really like your blog!

11/21/2005 4:49 PM  
Blogger Mad Mod said...

No prob, man. Being a moderate, I do share several of your positions (immigration being one, dammit) and I'm glad to see someone who knows what they stand for and says it outright, regardless of whether I agree with all of it. Outstanding. Come back by anytime!

11/21/2005 5:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I too like to hear what people say, and I noticed my blog got comments by a lot of liberals (a-hem); )
Basically, you're for "Republicans who are not for Bish." Get well soon, vet!

11/22/2005 5:12 AM  
Blogger Mad Mod said...

Thanks, man.

11/22/2005 7:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hope you're feeling better - Happy Thanksgiving, vet!

I was raised in a moderate republican family in the '50s and haven't changed my views much, but the political landscape has shifted so far right that my friends now think of me as somewhere to the left of Stalin.

Anyway, you summarize the issue differences within the conservative movement well and although I agree with your breakdown, I'd add a little more of the basic moral and philosphical differences that also divide them at this time - that is, where these differences in issue stances come from. Maybe I'll write a piece on that sometime ;-) Thanks for the words.

11/24/2005 11:40 AM  
Blogger Poison Pero said...

Interesting site....I'll be by often.

I'm a traditional Conservative, who can't stand the Republican Party.

That said, the Republican Party (even at its worst) is so superior to the Democrats.......And I don't believe in 3rd Party's.

Which makes me an Anti-Democrat......Or a Republican-by-Default.

Come visit The Right is Right.....You might like it. And then again, you might not. LOL!

http://therightisright.blogspot.com/

11/24/2005 12:45 PM  
Blogger Cynthia said...

Are you sure he is a fiscal liberal?

I thought a liberal government largely did not "spend" money, but circulated it throughtout the countryside.

Don't you think a proper term for Bush would be a Fiscal Libertine, since he spends money, or more accurately, squanders it.

What have the Bush Regime and other Neo Cons produced to be coined a Fiscal Liberal?

11/25/2005 12:37 AM  
Blogger Mad Mod said...

The major difference is that the term libertine pertains more to moral and religious concepts. Typically, an atheist or agnostic could be described as a 'libertine'. There's some gray area around what most people think of the word 'liberal' (in the social aspect, it has a very progressive connotation, but in the fiscal sense, it typically refers to one who spends with abandon), and it doesn't really apply well either according to established definition. In the case of most established 'progressive thinkers' (i.e. Teddy Roosevelt, JFK), while they may be referred to as liberals, we're really looking at a good balance between social liberalism and fiscal conservatism. Perhaps, in Bush's case, we could just stick with 'gold digger' or something like that?

11/26/2005 6:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is the "liberal" party of Democrats inferior to the Republican party?

Any valid reasons? A party for the people, the weak, the undernourished, a party that wishes rights for everyone?

How can anyone be against those values. A true Christian orientation...is to take care of the poor..we should all be thankful of social programs when used to a limited degree; it contributes to a community based America. What extremist Christian conservatives give lip service to saying they want. Check it out in the Bible.

neo-cons such as Paul Wolfowitz are the spawn of Leo Strauss.

My biggest problem with the neo-cons, is that they have no problem with things like this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10454316

Maybe I'm naive, but I believe in an America that is free from government intrusion, and the claims of "national security" and "we're at war" be DAMNED!!!! "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" Please, please, please consider that. Also consider how Prez Bush can hold hands with a Saudi Crown Prince after he just arrested 40 Christians prior to his arrival in the US. Consider innocent people being swooped up at random points, kept locked up for 4 months, then released after the US military determines it was a case of mistaken identity. Multiply this times thousands. That is just plan wrong. Consider Chalabi being treated by as a dignitary, all the while he's being investigated for passing intel to Iran concerning the US. Please consider all of the meddling the US has done throughout the last 60 years in other country's political issues, including our arming of the mujahdeen fighters (Usama bin Laden), and that they've turned those skills on us today. Consider 'gay' people whether you agree with what they do in their homes, behind a locked front door, and a locked bedroom door even, is none of your gotdamn business. To add rules segregating them from rights enjoyed by other Americans only adds to a feeling of distrust, hate, and justifies a feeling of anger. Why? Just to prevent two people from engaging in activities you personally are not comfortable with? Boo hoo. I don't like the idea of my father's job being passed over to India. I don't like the thought of my Grandma not being able to afford medications. I don't like the thought of my brother and his wife working 3 jobs just to feed their kids. Conservatives are misguided, backward thinking group of people. Capitalism thrives on risks, if you were to take up that last bastion of "free-market" thinkers, etc.

True conservatives, would know enough to keep a hands off approach, and keep the governments nose out of other people's lives. You cannot pick and choose when the government must have hands off of our private lives, and every other aspect.

Wake up.

12/14/2005 3:55 AM  
Blogger Mad Mod said...

Agreed on pretty much everything, Des. My only gripe is the lack of balls our Dems in Congress are showing. They could be taking these people to task, but instead all they seem to do is whine. Many people don't care for Mike Moore, but I look at his view that maybe we should combine the Rep and Dem parties and start a third, truly liberal party, and I just smile and nod. He's got a good head on his shoulders.

12/14/2005 8:20 AM  

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